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you're listening to fade to black with

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your host Jimmy church on the Dark

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Matter radio network are you scared are

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you holding your pillow are you a narc

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don't worry kids shimmy will see the

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truth live from the Jaypee more sports

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studio

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broadcasting around little oh I'm still

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hard

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and now for your host the captain of

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conspiracy

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this in your daddy's radio show this is

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hi all right everybody welcome back this

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is fade to black i'm your host jimmy

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church thursday december 26 2013 one day

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after christmas i hope everybody out

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there had a great time with your family

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yesterday and it was safe we are live

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from the JP motor sports Studios right

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here in Burbank California I know it is

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cold and chilly around the country but

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it was about 80 degrees here today in

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Burbank I wore sandals all day for KJ CR

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and the Dark Matter radio network i am

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your host jimmy church you know i start

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off every show i started off with a

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salute to the proud men and women in

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uniform all around the world fighting

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the good fight for us without them there

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is no me there is no you there is no us

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alright let's get this show we have a

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great show lined up tonight follow us on

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twitter facebook and youtube everything

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is fade to black our twitter account was

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hacked last week so far all of you

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conspiracy people out there go and sign

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up and follow us on twitter the link is

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right there on the website by the end of

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the show we should have about another

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500 twitter followers all right tonight

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we have open lines so get it going right

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now the skype number is fade to black 14

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get in line we will be taking your calls

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later on tonight you can email us

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throughout the show i'll get you as many

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as i can email to Jimmy and Jimmy Church

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radio com very simple or you can go over

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to the website just go to the contact

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page where we use exclusively non NSA

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specially encrypted servers for your

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safety ok the bumper music tonight all

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of the bumper music on the show tonight

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is from a guitarist named doug aldrich

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doug is the guitar player a guitar

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player in the band Whitesnake and a

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friend of mine and so we're using his

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music tonight on today's show so a big

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THANK YOU to Doug in the second segment

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tonight we will have live from New

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Mexico nuria Hayek

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he's an original another og original

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area 51 researcher and he'll be in the

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second hour and if we have some time

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will try to take your calls then we have

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posted up on the site I want everybody

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to go check out on Jimmy Church

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radio.com we've got a virtual viewer it

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is really cool of the Giza pyramids go

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check that out it is a real-time 3d

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viewer you can choose your view your

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helicopter view you're going to spend a

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lot of time on it I spent about a wasted

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a half hour of my life today on that

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viewer it is absolutely amazing but

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click on the little speaker button to

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turn off the music so you can listen to

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me tonight on the show okay let's get

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this show going we've got a busy packed

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show and it is going to be great I have

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always promised that the the best the

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brightest will be on this show and

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tonight is no exception nuclear

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physicist lecturer Stanton T Friedman

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received his BSC and MSC degrees in

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physics from the University of Chicago

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in 1955 in 1956 he was employed for 14

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years as a nuclear physicist by such

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companies as GE GM Westinghouse trw

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systems Aerojet general Nucleonics and

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McDonnell Douglas working in such highly

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advanced classified eventually canceled

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programs as nuclear aircraft fission and

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fusion rockets and various compact

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nuclear power plants he became

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interested in UFOs in 1958 and in since

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nineteen sixty seven has lectured about

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them at more than 600 this is a mouthful

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600 colleges 100 professional groups in

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50 states 10 canadian provinces in 18

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other countries he has published more

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than 90 UFO papers and has appeared on

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hundreds of radio TV programs he is the

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original civilian investigator of the

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Roswell incident he co-authored the

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crash at Corona the definitive study of

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the Roswell incident and my personal

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favorite top secret magic he has

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provided

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written testimony to congressional

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hearings and it has appeared twice at

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the United Nations and i gotta tell you

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Stanton that is an impressive bio how

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are you tonight um very good here in

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beautiful fredericton new brunswick

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canada where it was 10 below this

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morning and we had about eight inches of

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snow today so with the three feet we've

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already had this fall winter season so

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no sandals no sandals no sandals at all

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though I was in Brazil de less than a

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month ago and it was 85 down there well

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you can get your warm on i guess but

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then you've got to eventually go back to

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the snow but right now i'm not wearing

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socks so there you go alright well this

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isn't an interview this is a

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conversation okay and i'm very excited

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about having you on it is an honor but

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and you hear that all the time but i

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really appreciate it but we're going to

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do this in a few different sections but

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it's just a conversation and the way

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that I feel that my listeners our

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listeners on the Dark Matter radio

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network if I find it interesting they

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will too so it's just a conversation

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okay are you ready yep okay let's talk

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about mj-12 first the mj-12 documents

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now for most people listening to the

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show in the art bell you know fanbase

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out there know about the mj-12 documents

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but for the ones that dome for the new

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listeners what are they and when did

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they first appear how and when did they

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first appear well in december 1984 my

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colleague well Jamie Shander a and

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William Moore and I had worked together

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on Roswell related stuff and a roll of

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film arrived at Jamie's house in the

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Hollywood area and it was unprocessed

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and it didn't have a return to dress and

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Bill is processed a lot of film role of

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35 people may not remember there used to

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be 35 millimeter film out there and he

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process it and it turns out there were

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two sets

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of eight negatives each of a briefing

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for president-elect dwight d eisenhower

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and it was labeled top secret magic Maj

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IC and dated in november 1952 now the

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context here is that Ike had just won

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the election for president in less than

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a month about a month earlier and this

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is a briefing for the president-elect he

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didn't actually become president until

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nineteen fifty three and in this

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briefing and its eyes only for the

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president alone in other words I it's a

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briefing which states that the roswell

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incident happened of summarizes I'm not

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going to read from it and that it this

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group operation majestic-12 was set up

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by president truman in September of 1947

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to deal with what happened at Roswell

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and to serve as a central clearinghouse

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if you will for the important UFO stuff

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twelve members on the group were listed

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and they all made sense except one in

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other words if you're going to have a

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top secret group they all have to have

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high level security clearances you got

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to have competent people and boy this

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was an all-star cast well with three

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former directors of Central Intelligence

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for example exactly but it was you know

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was called majestic I believe it right

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the first it said had anybody yourself

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or Jamie shandar at the time was this

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the first time anybody had ever heard

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the words majestic or magic 12 uh any

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kind of sensible context yes that this

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wasn't preaching to the converted in

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other words we didn't already have our

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mitts on mj-12 or majestic-12 magic 12

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no I and the problem was that you know

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I'm a nuclear physicist I like to have

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facts data facts in hand before putting

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mouth in gear and here this looked too

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good to be true and there was one real

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the strong point that worried me and the

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list of people i mean secretary defense

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was on there and dr. vannevar bush and

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you know was a really top-notch group of

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people accept that how in the world

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could dr. Donald Howard Menzel of

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Harvard University be a member of such a

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group that know all about flying saucers

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alien bodies it talks about Roswell

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recovery embodies and stuff uh when men

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zol wrote three anti UFO book he was the

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biggest skeptic of the time so

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supposedly right also you don't need a

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high level security clearance to teach

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astronomy at Harvard unless unless he

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was there for a reason well that was the

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kicker what I'm saying is we didn't dare

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to go public right until we had a lot

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more information because all we needed

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was to go public men somebody say gotcha

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I made that up myself and you guys fell

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for it when you guys guy I don't want to

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jump I don't want to jump ahead but when

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you guys did eventually go public with

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this was there any official government

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response anything immediate no no uh

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there was later when on the guy who

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wrote the big report about Roswell

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Colonel Weaver I made a passing comment

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to Nick Redfern from England now living

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in Texas uh that everybody says the

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mj-12 documents are fraudulent and you

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know was a quick comment it wasn't an

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explanation or anything just a statement

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and the kicker is this but I've heard I

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think every criticism that's been made

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of the reports now I under the documents

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now I should stress there's well over a

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hundred mj-12 documents I say three of

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them are definitely genuine and one

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probably is the rest are phonies and

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people say what do you mean if they're

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phony why aren't these phony because you

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look at the specifics and in my books

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I've shown that some of them are phony

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with wrong information false information

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lifting something that I found in a book

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as if it was an original document

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when in fact it wife and stuff like that

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I faces grammar possibly too well yeah

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all that kind of stuff there were some

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crucial things I that were you know that

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I could show made sense although I

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didn't know it before hand there are

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dates in this thing when somebody meant

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with somebody else like a check I've

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been to 20 archives over the years

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presidential archives in the library

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Congress and a whole bunch of places if

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somebody pay me full time I thought I'd

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spent my life because I love digging

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into things like that okay I had a sick

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I should stress I had a security

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clearance for 14 years and so I know a

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lot about security I wrote classified

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documents myself I mentioned it's not

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the brig but only because I hear some

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really stupid things from people who

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I've had people tell me well Stan surely

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those members of mj-12 would have told

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their wives what they were doing and of

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00:12:55,769 --> 00:12:52,779
course that's not true I never told my

272
00:12:57,840 --> 00:12:55,779
wife anything classified people the work

273
00:13:00,629 --> 00:12:57,850
done security don't it's risky it's

274
00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:00,639
dangerous and especially if the enemies

275
00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:01,930
think they can get it stuff from your

276
00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:05,290
family and not from you you know bad bad

277
00:13:08,639 --> 00:13:06,850
deal I've had people tell me though

278
00:13:11,879 --> 00:13:08,649
everything is Declassified after 25

279
00:13:13,619 --> 00:13:11,889
years Stan did you know that no I didn't

280
00:13:16,110 --> 00:13:13,629
some people think if you've got a top

281
00:13:18,780 --> 00:13:16,120
secret clearance you have access to all

282
00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:18,790
top secret documents it's totally untrue

283
00:13:25,769 --> 00:13:23,050
you need to have a need to know so just

284
00:13:28,319 --> 00:13:25,779
having a clearance it won't get you

285
00:13:31,590 --> 00:13:28,329
access you have to be approved for

286
00:13:34,019 --> 00:13:31,600
access but there are specifics in the

287
00:13:36,269 --> 00:13:34,029
document so the one I'm proudest of

288
00:13:39,179 --> 00:13:36,279
besides what I found out about dr.

289
00:13:41,009 --> 00:13:39,189
Menzel and that came as a shock to me I

290
00:13:42,780 --> 00:13:41,019
had one run-in with him while he was

291
00:13:44,460 --> 00:13:42,790
alive all these guys were dead the last

292
00:13:47,069 --> 00:13:44,470
one died just a few months before we got

293
00:13:51,019 --> 00:13:47,079
this roll of film how convenient one

294
00:13:56,489 --> 00:13:51,029
copy a coincidence you know uh and

295
00:13:59,369 --> 00:13:56,499
besides uh dr. men zol there were other

296
00:14:03,840 --> 00:13:59,379
things in the documents that made you be

297
00:14:05,129 --> 00:14:03,850
at cautious uh you check the dates and

298
00:14:07,379 --> 00:14:05,139
they're okay

299
00:14:10,769 --> 00:14:07,389
there is a place where it says the

300
00:14:13,139 --> 00:14:10,779
briefing officer was Admiral Roscoe age

301
00:14:16,319 --> 00:14:13,149
he'll encoder now he had been a director

302
00:14:17,849 --> 00:14:16,329
of Central Intelligence but he was not

303
00:14:20,460 --> 00:14:17,859
an admiral he was only a Rear Admiral

304
00:14:24,210 --> 00:14:20,470
and some people have said aha that

305
00:14:26,249 --> 00:14:24,220
proves it's phony well at the eisenhower

306
00:14:28,889 --> 00:14:26,259
library i was able to find that there

307
00:14:32,249 --> 00:14:28,899
were minutes taken a meetings at the

308
00:14:35,489 --> 00:14:32,259
White House by general good pastor who

309
00:14:37,229 --> 00:14:35,499
was like staff secretary he'd write

310
00:14:39,599 --> 00:14:37,239
minutes after each meeting of who said

311
00:14:42,809 --> 00:14:39,609
what and what work had to be done and so

312
00:14:46,769 --> 00:14:42,819
forth and these are called mem cons

313
00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:46,779
memorandum of conversations and he lists

314
00:14:53,669 --> 00:14:50,290
the attendees at these meetings any list

315
00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:53,679
them all buygeneric rank the military

316
00:14:58,619 --> 00:14:56,410
ones general Jones Admiral Smith that

317
00:15:00,739 --> 00:14:58,629
sort of thing he doesn't say what right

318
00:15:04,590 --> 00:15:00,749
isn't safe or Star Jones Rear Admiral

319
00:15:07,859 --> 00:15:04,600
that no just a generic right even

320
00:15:09,869 --> 00:15:07,869
himself the proof of the pudding was he

321
00:15:12,799 --> 00:15:09,879
he was listed as one of the attendees

322
00:15:16,559 --> 00:15:12,809
general good faster he signed the memo

323
00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:16,569
Brigadier General good pastor and yet

324
00:15:20,999 --> 00:15:18,610
I've had some critics say well obviously

325
00:15:24,449 --> 00:15:21,009
the documents fraudulent because that

326
00:15:26,639 --> 00:15:24,459
rear he wasn't had really was a rear him

327
00:15:28,799 --> 00:15:26,649
I talked to two different archivists at

328
00:15:30,780 --> 00:15:28,809
the eyes narrowing library ask them

329
00:15:33,269 --> 00:15:30,790
whether this use of generic ranks

330
00:15:35,729 --> 00:15:33,279
bothered them and accept both fed

331
00:15:37,979 --> 00:15:35,739
independently of course not that was

332
00:15:40,379 --> 00:15:37,989
standard practice if you read a book

333
00:15:44,789 --> 00:15:40,389
that i groped you'll find his use of

334
00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:44,799
generic ranks i well let me let me jump

335
00:15:50,039 --> 00:15:47,290
in 13 let me jump in really quick you

336
00:15:52,590 --> 00:15:50,049
said there was four of the the set that

337
00:15:56,100 --> 00:15:52,600
you feel that our genuine three probably

338
00:15:59,279 --> 00:15:56,110
four were were those on the original

339
00:16:01,019 --> 00:15:59,289
roll of film no there were the original

340
00:16:04,499 --> 00:16:01,029
roll of film had the I sahar briefing

341
00:16:09,329 --> 00:16:04,509
document and it had the Truman Forrestal

342
00:16:13,439 --> 00:16:09,339
memo that was the memo from Truman to

343
00:16:15,869 --> 00:16:13,449
Forrestal in 1947 establishing operation

344
00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:15,879
majestic-12 accountable only to the

345
00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:18,170
president of the United States

346
00:16:24,850 --> 00:16:22,130
that was the enable enabling start of

347
00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:24,860
everything the third one was found we

348
00:16:29,379 --> 00:16:26,810
had been getting some strange letter of

349
00:16:31,210 --> 00:16:29,389
postcards actually well I know where

350
00:16:32,949 --> 00:16:31,220
your I know where you're going and I'm

351
00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:32,959
gonna ask you about that in one second

352
00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:36,250
but I just want to be clear so I'm the

353
00:16:42,990 --> 00:16:38,810
everything was on film how many of the

354
00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:43,000
documents of majestic or actual paper

355
00:16:51,069 --> 00:16:46,490
well the one that was found the third

356
00:16:53,319 --> 00:16:51,079
one is a memo from Cutler Robert Cutler

357
00:16:56,079 --> 00:16:53,329
who was Ike's national security adviser

358
00:16:59,439 --> 00:16:56,089
is slightly different title back then to

359
00:17:07,750 --> 00:16:59,449
general Nathan twining and in it in the

360
00:17:09,970 --> 00:17:07,760
heading it mentions a majestic 12 uh a

361
00:17:11,620 --> 00:17:09,980
meeting is going to be held at a certain

362
00:17:14,199 --> 00:17:11,630
time it was supposed to be held another

363
00:17:18,309 --> 00:17:14,209
time it just notified the right people

364
00:17:20,110 --> 00:17:18,319
that there's been a change and uh people

365
00:17:21,699 --> 00:17:20,120
jumped on that one the Cutler time

366
00:17:23,409 --> 00:17:21,709
that's available if you go to the

367
00:17:26,740 --> 00:17:23,419
National Archives which has been moved

368
00:17:30,100 --> 00:17:26,750
now to college park maryland they'll

369
00:17:33,310 --> 00:17:30,110
pull out a copy of the original majestic

370
00:17:35,890 --> 00:17:33,320
that memo the cover twining memo well

371
00:17:37,690 --> 00:17:35,900
how you found this memo how is shan dara

372
00:17:39,909 --> 00:17:37,700
found this memo i think is one of the

373
00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:39,919
more intriguing stories out of a you

374
00:17:43,690 --> 00:17:41,690
started to touch upon that when you

375
00:17:46,380 --> 00:17:43,700
mentioned well yeah posters it was kind

376
00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:46,390
of weird they were getting strange

377
00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:50,290
postcards from hither thither and yon

378
00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:53,090
somebody anybody can send mail you know

379
00:17:57,100 --> 00:17:55,010
no big deal but there was enough

380
00:17:59,350 --> 00:17:57,110
information or to suggest that we should

381
00:18:04,390 --> 00:17:59,360
be going to somebody should be going to

382
00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:04,400
Washington and uh checking at one of the

383
00:18:10,090 --> 00:18:08,090
archives there and so bill and Jamie who

384
00:18:12,190 --> 00:18:10,100
were hoping to make a movie out of this

385
00:18:13,810 --> 00:18:12,200
whole thing in a book and all kinds of

386
00:18:17,620 --> 00:18:13,820
deal i mean i'm on the east coast there

387
00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:17,630
in the west coast you know and they went

388
00:18:24,430 --> 00:18:20,690
and they look we were notified that

389
00:18:26,380 --> 00:18:24,440
certain papers were being reviewed that

390
00:18:28,750 --> 00:18:26,390
had been reviewed by the government at

391
00:18:30,790 --> 00:18:28,760
the National Archives so they went to

392
00:18:33,190 --> 00:18:30,800
that file

393
00:18:36,010 --> 00:18:33,200
and they it one of the postcards

394
00:18:38,470 --> 00:18:36,020
mentioned a certain post office box and

395
00:18:41,410 --> 00:18:38,480
it would turns out this was a file box

396
00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:41,420
but they found those papers in ed at the

397
00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:44,570
National Archives National Archive are

398
00:18:52,110 --> 00:18:48,890
locked yes national archive and the

399
00:18:57,340 --> 00:18:52,120
kicker was that when you looked at this

400
00:19:00,910 --> 00:18:57,350
document its original paper and it even

401
00:19:03,010 --> 00:19:00,920
has a slant red pencil mark through the

402
00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:03,020
security marking and I didn't find out

403
00:19:08,230 --> 00:19:05,570
until later what that meant I asked an

404
00:19:11,530 --> 00:19:08,240
archivist not there but I think Eisner

405
00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:11,540
Larry what does that mean that Flint red

406
00:19:15,700 --> 00:19:14,090
pencil wire through the security mark he

407
00:19:17,110 --> 00:19:15,710
said well that standard practice here

408
00:19:19,930 --> 00:19:17,120
when you're going to declassify a

409
00:19:22,420 --> 00:19:19,940
document you do that so people will know

410
00:19:23,770 --> 00:19:22,430
that it's been Declassified you have to

411
00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:23,780
stamp it with the appropriate security

412
00:19:27,910 --> 00:19:26,450
markings but still now I didn't know

413
00:19:29,710 --> 00:19:27,920
that night like I said I spent a lot of

414
00:19:32,100 --> 00:19:29,720
time at archives and nobody else I knew

415
00:19:36,010 --> 00:19:32,110
knew it but it was an indicator of

416
00:19:39,700 --> 00:19:36,020
legitimacy where is the where's the

417
00:19:43,510 --> 00:19:39,710
Cutler twining memo right now I is it

418
00:19:48,430 --> 00:19:43,520
back of the archives yes oh yes original

419
00:19:50,770 --> 00:19:48,440
document okay so that's what I have item

420
00:19:53,620 --> 00:19:50,780
in my books and stuff like that but in

421
00:19:58,570 --> 00:19:53,630
its brief and the kicker about the

422
00:20:04,300 --> 00:19:58,580
Cutler twining memo is that uh mr.

423
00:20:07,900 --> 00:20:04,310
Philip class I who was the biggest noisy

424
00:20:11,260 --> 00:20:07,910
negative estoy Z naysayer anti UFO guy

425
00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:11,270
ever saw he was in a senior avionics

426
00:20:15,430 --> 00:20:13,090
editor for aviation week in space

427
00:20:18,460 --> 00:20:15,440
technology in Washington so he was the

428
00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:18,470
go-to debunker because he was convenient

429
00:20:22,570 --> 00:20:20,570
right there in Washington you know not a

430
00:20:25,090 --> 00:20:22,580
scientist you understand oh no a

431
00:20:26,740 --> 00:20:25,100
debunker and the FBI doesn't like him

432
00:20:28,270 --> 00:20:26,750
you can go on the internet and see is

433
00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:28,280
that the AI file and they were very

434
00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:29,930
upset about him but they couldn't

435
00:20:35,470 --> 00:20:32,930
prosecute him because to do so for

436
00:20:36,430 --> 00:20:35,480
leaking classified information they

437
00:20:38,740 --> 00:20:36,440
would have to reveal the information

438
00:20:40,450 --> 00:20:38,750
they didn't want to do that but they had

439
00:20:43,410 --> 00:20:40,460
some very strong words to say about it

440
00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:43,420
anyway I got challenged about this one

441
00:20:50,370 --> 00:20:45,850
perhaps you didn't notice Phil said to

442
00:20:53,550 --> 00:20:50,380
me in a letter that I it was done in the

443
00:20:57,240 --> 00:20:53,560
large pie cut type but the standard at

444
00:20:59,970 --> 00:20:57,250
the National Security Council is a leap

445
00:21:02,400 --> 00:20:59,980
type and he had nine documents to prove

446
00:21:04,590 --> 00:21:02,410
that they challenged me I will give you

447
00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:04,600
a hundred dollars each for every genuine

448
00:21:10,620 --> 00:21:06,610
document meeting a whole bunch of

449
00:21:13,500 --> 00:21:10,630
criteria you still have the check not in

450
00:21:17,100 --> 00:21:13,510
the same size and style type right as

451
00:21:19,860 --> 00:21:17,110
the Cutler 20 memo well phil has never

452
00:21:21,630 --> 00:21:19,870
been and i've checked since it never in

453
00:21:24,090 --> 00:21:21,640
his life was at the Eisenhower library

454
00:21:26,070 --> 00:21:24,100
I've spent weeks there and I was going

455
00:21:28,260 --> 00:21:26,080
there anyway shortly after that he gave

456
00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:28,270
me 60 days but two weeks later I was I

457
00:21:35,540 --> 00:21:32,290
taken Aaron library and look for pike a

458
00:21:39,030 --> 00:21:35,550
type memos meeting his all his criteria

459
00:21:42,360 --> 00:21:39,040
and I quickly found them a psycho type

460
00:21:45,270 --> 00:21:42,370
is bigger it shows up I hope people know

461
00:21:48,900 --> 00:21:45,280
what typewriters are many around anymore

462
00:21:52,110 --> 00:21:48,910
but anyway I found 14 documents he said

463
00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:52,120
a limit up to a maximum of 10 so I

464
00:21:58,170 --> 00:21:54,250
figured I had insurance with 14 you know

465
00:22:01,830 --> 00:21:58,180
so I dug out 14 I made copies I send him

466
00:22:05,210 --> 00:22:01,840
copies of them and an invoice for a

467
00:22:08,340 --> 00:22:05,220
thousand dollars ten times a hundred and

468
00:22:10,170 --> 00:22:08,350
he paid me I told everybody about

469
00:22:13,500 --> 00:22:10,180
challenging me and nobody about paying

470
00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:13,510
me but here's the crazy part this is

471
00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:15,250
typical of the intellectual bankruptcy

472
00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:18,730
of the pseudoscience of anti ufology I

473
00:22:26,700 --> 00:22:21,210
like the way that sounds that was nice

474
00:22:29,580 --> 00:22:26,710
uh he as I pointed out to people anybody

475
00:22:31,260 --> 00:22:29,590
who's listened the Eisenhower library

476
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:31,270
had two hundred fifty thousand pages of

477
00:22:37,950 --> 00:22:34,450
national security council materials to

478
00:22:40,050 --> 00:22:37,960
generalize from nine done in a certain

479
00:22:43,590 --> 00:22:40,060
typewriter through a certain type faith

480
00:22:45,420 --> 00:22:43,600
to 250,000 is ridiculous I mean if you

481
00:22:48,540 --> 00:22:45,430
had a hundred documents in ninety time

482
00:22:49,890 --> 00:22:48,550
nine we're all done in the let's say a

483
00:22:51,420 --> 00:22:49,900
leap type and you don't have the

484
00:22:53,420 --> 00:22:51,430
hundreds but you know it's there because

485
00:22:55,410 --> 00:22:53,430
it's referenced that you might be

486
00:22:57,070 --> 00:22:55,420
legitimate and saying it's probably done

487
00:23:01,660 --> 00:22:57,080
the same type but from

488
00:23:05,650 --> 00:23:01,670
92 250,000 does not compute but that's

489
00:23:10,630 --> 00:23:05,660
typical of like I say that the false

490
00:23:13,140 --> 00:23:10,640
arguments that are made I and let me

491
00:23:16,180 --> 00:23:13,150
mention my findings about dr. menville

492
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:16,190
if I said I had one run-in with him I

493
00:23:21,100 --> 00:23:19,010
was speaking at to a Harvard engineering

494
00:23:25,030 --> 00:23:21,110
alumni group and I called him early in

495
00:23:27,970 --> 00:23:25,040
the day we had never talked and I gave

496
00:23:29,500 --> 00:23:27,980
my name oh I know all about you I said

497
00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:29,510
oh you saw my congressional testimony

498
00:23:34,420 --> 00:23:32,570
next to yours now I've seen letters and

499
00:23:36,490 --> 00:23:34,430
memos you can't be a scientist and

500
00:23:38,830 --> 00:23:36,500
believe in flying saucers he said so I

501
00:23:41,380 --> 00:23:38,840
left because it was such a funny remark

502
00:23:42,850 --> 00:23:41,390
and he got angry inside of ranting and

503
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:42,860
raving they said look dr. Mendel I

504
00:23:48,130 --> 00:23:45,410
didn't call argue with you I called out

505
00:23:49,470 --> 00:23:48,140
of courtesy speaking on your campus I

506
00:23:51,370 --> 00:23:49,480
don't know whether they've made it

507
00:23:54,100 --> 00:23:51,380
invitations available to everybody

508
00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:54,110
whether it's a closed group I never know

509
00:23:57,730 --> 00:23:56,090
what some campuses you don't know who's

510
00:24:00,640 --> 00:23:57,740
sponsoring on who's going to be let in

511
00:24:03,190 --> 00:24:00,650
and so he backed off a little bit said

512
00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:03,200
oh well of course I won't go so I told

513
00:24:09,310 --> 00:24:06,170
the story that night that's the electric

514
00:24:12,430 --> 00:24:09,320
effect but I couldn't resist but so I

515
00:24:16,150 --> 00:24:12,440
was not a fan of dr. menville however I

516
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:16,160
found a letter in the papers of dr.

517
00:24:22,900 --> 00:24:17,930
Vannevar Bush won the top scientist

518
00:24:25,150 --> 00:24:22,910
during the war uh headed the ran I don't

519
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:25,160
know dozens and dozens of technical

520
00:24:32,110 --> 00:24:29,810
projects uh having to do with radar the

521
00:24:34,660 --> 00:24:32,120
proximity fuze he was present at the

522
00:24:39,220 --> 00:24:34,670
first test of the atomic bomb etc etc a

523
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:39,230
real wheel and Aaron his papers I found

524
00:24:48,610 --> 00:24:44,690
a memo from a lawyer in Boston thanking

525
00:24:51,460 --> 00:24:48,620
him for his assistance in getting dr.

526
00:24:54,460 --> 00:24:51,470
Menzel off on this charge of being

527
00:24:56,860 --> 00:24:54,470
disloyal I look at this and say what the

528
00:24:58,480 --> 00:24:56,870
heck is that all about why would rental

529
00:25:01,690 --> 00:24:58,490
they were going to take away of security

530
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:01,700
clearance why I have one and you know

531
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:04,730
what's the kicker here so I called the

532
00:25:08,830 --> 00:25:06,890
lawyer firm and found out that there's

533
00:25:10,269 --> 00:25:08,840
over eleven hundred pages of stuff about

534
00:25:13,180 --> 00:25:10,279
the hearings

535
00:25:16,690 --> 00:25:13,190
thing in the newspapers Washington Post

536
00:25:19,479 --> 00:25:16,700
New York Times didn't see anything so I

537
00:25:21,489 --> 00:25:19,489
called him Harvard had over 11 other

538
00:25:23,529 --> 00:25:21,499
pages I called Harvard how could I get

539
00:25:24,700 --> 00:25:23,539
access to his papers it turns out i had

540
00:25:28,180 --> 00:25:24,710
to get permission from three different

541
00:25:30,909 --> 00:25:28,190
people including his wife to look at his

542
00:25:34,149 --> 00:25:30,919
unpublished autobiography so I did that

543
00:25:36,190 --> 00:25:34,159
written permission mind you and I got a

544
00:25:39,700 --> 00:25:36,200
grant from the fun for UFO research and

545
00:25:43,060 --> 00:25:39,710
I went down the harbor and I spent three

546
00:25:45,369 --> 00:25:43,070
days and I was totally shocked I was

547
00:25:47,979 --> 00:25:45,379
blown away I didn't know where to look

548
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:47,989
because his UFO papers were supposedly

549
00:25:54,719 --> 00:25:50,210
at the American Philosophical Society

550
00:25:57,639 --> 00:25:54,729
library in Washington DC so you know

551
00:25:59,680 --> 00:25:57,649
what's what's going on here what where

552
00:26:02,799 --> 00:25:59,690
would I find UFO stuff well I saw file

553
00:26:05,469 --> 00:26:02,809
it's a JFK so I decided to look there

554
00:26:08,289 --> 00:26:05,479
and that was the eye opener the real

555
00:26:11,950 --> 00:26:08,299
lucky break it turns out that men zol

556
00:26:13,749 --> 00:26:11,960
new JFK because he was on the board of

557
00:26:16,709 --> 00:26:13,759
overseers at Harvard in this area of

558
00:26:19,089 --> 00:26:16,719
interest was astronomy and men's will

559
00:26:21,669 --> 00:26:19,099
work closely with him on that and he

560
00:26:26,019 --> 00:26:21,679
really liked JFK's Menzel's wife told me

561
00:26:27,999 --> 00:26:26,029
that partly because Kennedy wrote his

562
00:26:29,529 --> 00:26:28,009
own report instead of asking benzyl to

563
00:26:31,209 --> 00:26:29,539
do it a lot of the other people that

564
00:26:34,959 --> 00:26:31,219
were done why don't you write the report

565
00:26:36,729 --> 00:26:34,969
you know and they're in correspondence

566
00:26:41,499 --> 00:26:36,739
between the two not only are they on a

567
00:26:45,129 --> 00:26:41,509
personal basis but this is in the

568
00:26:48,700 --> 00:26:45,139
campaign yer of nineteen sixty Kennedy

569
00:26:50,519 --> 00:26:48,710
running for president and mendelssohn

570
00:26:54,310 --> 00:26:50,529
there's one area where I may be able to

571
00:26:55,869 --> 00:26:54,320
be of some assistance I was at a longer

572
00:26:59,489 --> 00:26:55,879
continuous association with the National

573
00:27:02,339 --> 00:26:59,499
Security Agency and its Navy predecessor

574
00:27:06,729 --> 00:27:02,349
NSA no such agency never says anything

575
00:27:10,869 --> 00:27:06,739
mr. Snowden's releasing ainger right

576
00:27:13,180 --> 00:27:10,879
right right uh mentals telling him I've

577
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:13,190
an alarm tenuous association when we are

578
00:27:20,619 --> 00:27:17,210
properly cleared to each other I can

579
00:27:21,830 --> 00:27:20,629
tell you more this is for the present

580
00:27:24,409 --> 00:27:21,840
right is that

581
00:27:27,409 --> 00:27:24,419
that must have been a tremendous aha

582
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:27,419
moment I know it was and then I found a

583
00:27:31,490 --> 00:27:29,010
bunch of other things in mental zone

584
00:27:34,220 --> 00:27:31,500
comments those hearings he said where

585
00:27:36,140 --> 00:27:34,230
the risk experience of his life I mean

586
00:27:40,730 --> 00:27:36,150
one of the reasons you get a kick out of

587
00:27:42,470 --> 00:27:40,740
why he was considered disloyal I he gave

588
00:27:44,269 --> 00:27:42,480
a pair of stockings to a Russian

589
00:27:47,990 --> 00:27:44,279
astronomer to take to his wife and

590
00:27:51,289 --> 00:27:48,000
nylons were big currency bikes about

591
00:27:54,409 --> 00:27:51,299
that he let it make trips expedition in

592
00:27:58,370 --> 00:27:54,419
the Soviet Union in 1936 obviously

593
00:28:01,070 --> 00:27:58,380
discipline and he said nice things at a

594
00:28:03,340 --> 00:28:01,080
Russian American friendship dinner in

595
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:03,350
1942 when everybody said nice things

596
00:28:07,130 --> 00:28:05,490
because thank goodness for the Russians

597
00:28:09,789 --> 00:28:07,140
holding off the German so we could get

598
00:28:13,100 --> 00:28:09,799
organized and eventually attack and

599
00:28:15,019 --> 00:28:13,110
Normandy and so forth but I mean that

600
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:15,029
this was some real hearing and it would

601
00:28:21,529 --> 00:28:19,770
be terrible experience for but I so is

602
00:28:23,389 --> 00:28:21,539
this certainly wasn't disloyal but he

603
00:28:26,389 --> 00:28:23,399
did classified work for the FBI for the

604
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:26,399
CIA for all kinds of people exactly

605
00:28:31,639 --> 00:28:28,890
which would explain why I mean to my

606
00:28:34,250 --> 00:28:31,649
eyes reading into this is exactly why he

607
00:28:37,750 --> 00:28:34,260
would be part of mj-12 Mickey was the

608
00:28:40,100 --> 00:28:37,760
world class cryptographer he taught

609
00:28:44,539 --> 00:28:40,110
cryptography he learned Japanese to help

610
00:28:46,639 --> 00:28:44,549
break the Japanese codes and so he uh

611
00:28:49,039 --> 00:28:46,649
there were symbols on some of the pieces

612
00:28:52,820 --> 00:28:49,049
from Roscoe for example he's the perfect

613
00:28:54,380 --> 00:28:52,830
guy to look at those but he did all this

614
00:28:58,070 --> 00:28:54,390
work and nobody knew about it there are

615
00:29:01,730 --> 00:28:58,080
two special issues of us um sky and

616
00:29:03,830 --> 00:29:01,740
telescope magazine and one at the

617
00:29:05,930 --> 00:29:03,840
anniversary of his death was dedicated I

618
00:29:07,610 --> 00:29:05,940
mean when he died was dedicated to men's

619
00:29:10,279 --> 00:29:07,620
own one at the hundredth anniversary of

620
00:29:12,830 --> 00:29:10,289
his birth neither one of these say

621
00:29:17,210 --> 00:29:12,840
anything at all about his highly

622
00:29:19,070 --> 00:29:17,220
classified work after the war uh which

623
00:29:21,289 --> 00:29:19,080
is kind of remarkable which included

624
00:29:23,810 --> 00:29:21,299
just didn't know about it exactly and

625
00:29:26,389 --> 00:29:23,820
included every single intelligence

626
00:29:27,980 --> 00:29:26,399
agency that we had running at the time

627
00:29:31,250 --> 00:29:27,990
in the country he was involved with

628
00:29:33,260 --> 00:29:31,260
every single one he it was top dog and

629
00:29:35,150 --> 00:29:33,270
so I developed a healthy respect for him

630
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:35,160
and I have people I haven't yet

631
00:29:40,100 --> 00:29:37,410
to find a critic who was actually

632
00:29:42,770 --> 00:29:40,110
visited the archives at Harvard to find

633
00:29:45,500 --> 00:29:42,780
anything on which the basic criticism of

634
00:29:47,630 --> 00:29:45,510
my conclusion that non mental certainly

635
00:29:50,870 --> 00:29:47,640
belonged on this group also incidentally

636
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:50,880
he wrote science fiction that's right

637
00:29:56,510 --> 00:29:53,490
that's right that suits him for writing

638
00:29:58,970 --> 00:29:56,520
cover stories if you know and his first

639
00:30:04,010 --> 00:29:58,980
book interestingly enough was translated

640
00:30:05,570 --> 00:30:04,020
into Russian well okay we're short on

641
00:30:08,810 --> 00:30:05,580
time I want to touch on a couple of

642
00:30:10,100 --> 00:30:08,820
other things really quick in 1982 so you

643
00:30:12,500 --> 00:30:10,110
had these documents you've been

644
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:12,510
researching you you're spending all of

645
00:30:17,150 --> 00:30:14,850
this time at the archives but back in

646
00:30:19,310 --> 00:30:17,160
nineteen eighty-two Bill Moore approach

647
00:30:22,550 --> 00:30:19,320
to you about creating those bogus

648
00:30:25,130 --> 00:30:22,560
Roswell documents and and then you have

649
00:30:28,610 --> 00:30:25,140
that whole Richard Doty project Aquarius

650
00:30:31,460 --> 00:30:28,620
teletype thing so when he combined that

651
00:30:33,230 --> 00:30:31,470
at later on did did a question your own

652
00:30:35,420 --> 00:30:33,240
judgment on the documents that you look

653
00:30:38,950 --> 00:30:35,430
back and go maybe just maybe I'm being

654
00:30:41,210 --> 00:30:38,960
fooled well I was always wary of that

655
00:30:44,150 --> 00:30:41,220
look I had an experience in the fifth

656
00:30:46,970 --> 00:30:44,160
grade our teacher was teaching a science

657
00:30:48,860 --> 00:30:46,980
and telling us that the Sun stand still

658
00:30:50,780 --> 00:30:48,870
on the planets go around the Sun and I

659
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:50,790
just read in my 49th sent a volume

660
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:53,370
encyclopedia at home that the whole

661
00:30:58,400 --> 00:30:55,410
solar system is moving around the galaxy

662
00:31:01,640 --> 00:30:58,410
at 12 miles a second so I objected and

663
00:31:03,260 --> 00:31:01,650
she gave me a very hard time so I didn't

664
00:31:05,390 --> 00:31:03,270
sense a teacher but I brought in the

665
00:31:07,940 --> 00:31:05,400
encyclopedia the next day and she backed

666
00:31:10,910 --> 00:31:07,950
off but it taught me a very important

667
00:31:14,300 --> 00:31:10,920
lesson facts in hand before mouth in

668
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:14,310
gear and I was in debating in high

669
00:31:19,910 --> 00:31:15,930
school we had a state championship came

670
00:31:22,910 --> 00:31:19,920
one year and uh the same holds true have

671
00:31:27,350 --> 00:31:22,920
facts ready to go and never make up

672
00:31:30,740 --> 00:31:27,360
anything well I have a great basket but

673
00:31:33,050 --> 00:31:30,750
Jamie Shan Dara was collaborating you

674
00:31:36,230 --> 00:31:33,060
know with Bill more since I don't know

675
00:31:38,690 --> 00:31:36,240
79 1980 I got the two of them together

676
00:31:40,940 --> 00:31:38,700
actually well do you think the two of

677
00:31:42,170 --> 00:31:40,950
them knew about Arthur Bray well we

678
00:31:43,730 --> 00:31:42,180
didn't even get a chance to talk about

679
00:31:45,740 --> 00:31:43,740
the Canadian connection it with this

680
00:31:47,870 --> 00:31:45,750
whole thing I don't think they know any

681
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:47,880
more than i did i I've looked at the

682
00:31:52,460 --> 00:31:48,570
break

683
00:31:57,620 --> 00:31:52,470
papers in Ottawa and the will respect

684
00:31:59,269 --> 00:31:57,630
papers with our embrace stuff now I we

685
00:32:02,600 --> 00:31:59,279
had a falling out about several things

686
00:32:04,999 --> 00:32:02,610
but it wasn't there was no suspicion

687
00:32:06,470 --> 00:32:05,009
people have way overstated the notion

688
00:32:08,930 --> 00:32:06,480
that well we ought to fake some

689
00:32:10,519 --> 00:32:08,940
documents and I can see the point you

690
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:10,529
put some bait out there and see who

691
00:32:16,159 --> 00:32:14,130
jumps for it so I didn't appreciate that

692
00:32:19,279 --> 00:32:16,169
and I was at the 89 new fund meeting

693
00:32:21,919 --> 00:32:19,289
where bill went on and on and on and

694
00:32:25,039 --> 00:32:21,929
said some dumb things and I was very

695
00:32:26,749 --> 00:32:25,049
upset about that because I was supposed

696
00:32:32,029 --> 00:32:26,759
to get a copy of his paper reporting

697
00:32:34,539 --> 00:32:32,039
gaben I didn't and I but I know I got a

698
00:32:37,549 --> 00:32:34,549
safer bill he was a hard-working guy

699
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:37,559
he'd go off and dig stuff out and dig

700
00:32:43,730 --> 00:32:41,490
stuff out find out about people I you

701
00:32:45,860 --> 00:32:43,740
know he had his flaws and he got out of

702
00:32:49,369 --> 00:32:45,870
the business and you know that's a

703
00:32:51,529 --> 00:32:49,379
separate story but I've been willing to

704
00:32:55,580 --> 00:32:51,539
look at everybody's objections to the

705
00:32:59,060 --> 00:32:55,590
mj-12 documents and uh you know because

706
00:33:00,710 --> 00:32:59,070
if there's a fact that i can't repudiate

707
00:33:03,499 --> 00:33:00,720
or can't refute if there's something

708
00:33:05,330 --> 00:33:03,509
about them that doesn't stand up then I

709
00:33:07,549 --> 00:33:05,340
want to know what I want to be the one

710
00:33:10,730 --> 00:33:07,559
to break the story not them and i have

711
00:33:12,830 --> 00:33:10,740
in my books you will notice that i have

712
00:33:15,740 --> 00:33:12,840
identified a number of documents as

713
00:33:19,820 --> 00:33:15,750
fraudulent and tell you why exactly I

714
00:33:20,990 --> 00:33:19,830
you know so and I was good I live a mile

715
00:33:24,169 --> 00:33:21,000
from the university of new brunswick

716
00:33:28,129 --> 00:33:24,179
here in fredericton new brunswick and i

717
00:33:31,100 --> 00:33:28,139
called the the archivist at the Marshall

718
00:33:34,009 --> 00:33:31,110
archives General George Marshall I said

719
00:33:37,999 --> 00:33:34,019
can you think of any reason why this

720
00:33:39,980 --> 00:33:38,009
particular general should be connected

721
00:33:44,299 --> 00:33:39,990
with mj-12 because it said that in one

722
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:44,309
of the documents and he said no I he

723
00:33:51,470 --> 00:33:47,610
doesn't belong there are why don't you

724
00:33:53,779 --> 00:33:51,480
read his book Oh what book he gave me

725
00:33:55,610 --> 00:33:53,789
the title and I called the University

726
00:33:58,460 --> 00:33:55,620
Library over here which I use quite a

727
00:34:02,210 --> 00:33:58,470
lot and they had the book I went over

728
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:02,220
and got it took it out and there were

729
00:34:09,139 --> 00:34:05,850
three documents that had been copied

730
00:34:12,859 --> 00:34:09,149
basically retyped it to some extent but

731
00:34:14,899 --> 00:34:12,869
with exact language and where the

732
00:34:17,570 --> 00:34:14,909
signatures the handwritten stuff fit

733
00:34:21,859 --> 00:34:17,580
right on top of it these were clearly

734
00:34:23,570 --> 00:34:21,869
what I call emulations made to look as

735
00:34:26,300 --> 00:34:23,580
if they were something that they weren't

736
00:34:29,240 --> 00:34:26,310
so it was very handy to find these

737
00:34:31,490 --> 00:34:29,250
documents and to have the university

738
00:34:33,290 --> 00:34:31,500
there and that gave me a clue as to how

739
00:34:38,690 --> 00:34:33,300
they were being faked and so I found

740
00:34:41,240 --> 00:34:38,700
some other materials it was a hunt for

741
00:34:44,780 --> 00:34:41,250
clues right you know and it was

742
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:44,790
fascinating and exciting and uh so I

743
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:47,490
finally got my act together I'm the

744
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:50,490
grandma moses of the UFO book writers

745
00:34:55,609 --> 00:34:52,050
you know i didn't write books until i

746
00:34:57,650 --> 00:34:55,619
was an old guy now my name is on five of

747
00:34:59,839 --> 00:34:57,660
five of them and I've written four words

748
00:35:05,180 --> 00:34:59,849
for several others people like me to

749
00:35:07,430 --> 00:35:05,190
write four words for well to get paid so

750
00:35:09,620 --> 00:35:07,440
today are you comfortable in the way

751
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:09,630
that you've I mean you have been staunch

752
00:35:15,620 --> 00:35:12,450
you have you have stood your ground you

753
00:35:19,690 --> 00:35:15,630
feel that you feel is positive today as

754
00:35:22,700 --> 00:35:19,700
you did 15 20 years ago yes uh I do

755
00:35:25,339 --> 00:35:22,710
about these few documents remember I am

756
00:35:27,710 --> 00:35:25,349
NOT saying and people always ask the

757
00:35:30,470 --> 00:35:27,720
wrong questions are those mj-12

758
00:35:32,240 --> 00:35:30,480
documents genuine well you gotta look at

759
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:32,250
each one right I'm talking about the

760
00:35:37,820 --> 00:35:34,050
foot yeah before that you've always

761
00:35:41,510 --> 00:35:37,830
stood by yes I am satisfied about them

762
00:35:43,670 --> 00:35:41,520
and you know I would love for somebody

763
00:35:45,170 --> 00:35:43,680
else to get a roll of film over here I'd

764
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:45,180
like to see some more you know but

765
00:35:51,079 --> 00:35:48,330
people forget incidentally that the guy

766
00:35:53,390 --> 00:35:51,089
who is at risk I mean the envelope

767
00:35:55,579 --> 00:35:53,400
didn't have a return to dress on it but

768
00:35:59,329 --> 00:35:55,589
King brought the original roll of film

769
00:36:01,790 --> 00:35:59,339
uh but the guy who sent the envelope is

770
00:36:04,460 --> 00:36:01,800
the guy is at risk is against the law to

771
00:36:05,750 --> 00:36:04,470
release classified information to people

772
00:36:08,450 --> 00:36:05,760
who don't have a clearance and a

773
00:36:11,150 --> 00:36:08,460
need-to-know suck so he couldn't just uh

774
00:36:12,470 --> 00:36:11,160
you know well those guys are all dead

775
00:36:16,010 --> 00:36:12,480
why don't you just tell us what's going

776
00:36:18,470 --> 00:36:16,020
on that's against the law and I get

777
00:36:20,720 --> 00:36:18,480
and by some people I tell them I am NOT

778
00:36:23,240 --> 00:36:20,730
for releasing disclosing everything

779
00:36:24,770 --> 00:36:23,250
about flying saucers because I think

780
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:24,780
there's some legitimate national

781
00:36:29,930 --> 00:36:28,170
security matters of course I you know

782
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:29,940
are the Russians and Chinese kind of

783
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:31,410
release their technical data that

784
00:36:35,870 --> 00:36:33,930
they've lean from any crashed saucers

785
00:36:40,340 --> 00:36:35,880
that they have recovered I don't think

786
00:36:41,990 --> 00:36:40,350
so i can answer that no okay well you

787
00:36:44,780 --> 00:36:42,000
see my point and people give me a hard

788
00:36:49,100 --> 00:36:44,790
time for that exactly exactly all

789
00:36:51,020 --> 00:36:49,110
entitled to know everything no all right

790
00:36:52,940 --> 00:36:51,030
let's change gears let's change gears a

791
00:36:57,110 --> 00:36:52,950
little bit here let's uh let's get a

792
00:36:59,750 --> 00:36:57,120
little little fun john g Fuller's book

793
00:37:02,570 --> 00:36:59,760
the interrupted journey changed my life

794
00:37:03,950 --> 00:37:02,580
now and I'm going to take the time here

795
00:37:07,790 --> 00:37:03,960
I'm gonna give you a 30 second story

796
00:37:09,710 --> 00:37:07,800
really quick well in 1983 I'm a kid I'm

797
00:37:12,260 --> 00:37:09,720
like 21 years old or something's 30

798
00:37:15,290 --> 00:37:12,270
years ago I move into this house in

799
00:37:17,270 --> 00:37:15,300
pasadena it's an empty house and I move

800
00:37:19,310 --> 00:37:17,280
in and I'm walking through this empty

801
00:37:21,470 --> 00:37:19,320
house all the walls painted white fresh

802
00:37:23,540 --> 00:37:21,480
carpet it's there's an i have no

803
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:23,550
furniture there's nothing in this house

804
00:37:30,350 --> 00:37:27,210
and in one of the bedrooms I find two

805
00:37:34,910 --> 00:37:30,360
paperback books on a bookshelf up on the

806
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:34,920
top of the closet and one of them was

807
00:37:38,870 --> 00:37:37,170
the interrupted journey now I did it I

808
00:37:41,030 --> 00:37:38,880
didn't have it was crazy because I

809
00:37:42,530 --> 00:37:41,040
didn't have a TV I didn't have a radio I

810
00:37:44,750 --> 00:37:42,540
might have had a blanket and a pillow

811
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:44,760
that that first night you know that I

812
00:37:50,900 --> 00:37:46,890
moved in the house and I started reading

813
00:37:55,430 --> 00:37:50,910
that book and it freaked me out and it

814
00:37:57,200 --> 00:37:55,440
changed my life and and so let's let's

815
00:37:58,880 --> 00:37:57,210
talk about let's start from the

816
00:38:00,650 --> 00:37:58,890
beginning a little bit in case anybody

817
00:38:02,660 --> 00:38:00,660
isn't familiar i know you've got a new

818
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:02,670
book out about this but Betty and Barney

819
00:38:10,310 --> 00:38:05,130
Hill had claimed to have been abducted

820
00:38:14,330 --> 00:38:10,320
by ETS in it was New Hampshire what 1960

821
00:38:16,100 --> 00:38:14,340
1961 5161 take take us through the

822
00:38:18,860 --> 00:38:16,110
events of that evening really really

823
00:38:20,720 --> 00:38:18,870
quickly the abridged version they were

824
00:38:22,630 --> 00:38:20,730
coming back to their home in portsmouth

825
00:38:25,310 --> 00:38:22,640
new hampshire which is done on the coast

826
00:38:29,180 --> 00:38:25,320
from canada they've taken sort of

827
00:38:29,900 --> 00:38:29,190
adelaide sort of like a vacation sort of

828
00:38:31,789 --> 00:38:29,910
a delayed

829
00:38:33,740 --> 00:38:31,799
moon kind of thing and they were going

830
00:38:35,660 --> 00:38:33,750
to stay overnight up in northern New

831
00:38:38,240 --> 00:38:35,670
Hampshire except that they heard on the

832
00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:38,250
radio that a hurricane was hitting Tory

833
00:38:41,930 --> 00:38:39,930
New Hampshire and they didn't want to be

834
00:38:43,670 --> 00:38:41,940
out on the road with a hurricane and and

835
00:38:45,589 --> 00:38:43,680
incidentally and I think this has

836
00:38:48,289 --> 00:38:45,599
something to do with the story for me

837
00:38:51,049 --> 00:38:48,299
but a bi-racial couple for back then

838
00:38:54,950 --> 00:38:51,059
extraordinary circumstances yes and

839
00:38:57,890 --> 00:38:54,960
betty was a social work for the state of

840
00:38:59,690 --> 00:38:57,900
New Hampshire and Barney worked for the

841
00:39:01,420 --> 00:38:59,700
post office was on the governor Civil

842
00:39:05,990 --> 00:39:01,430
Rights Commission these are very

843
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:06,000
respectable people are and they're

844
00:39:10,569 --> 00:39:08,130
coming home it's late at night nobody

845
00:39:13,130 --> 00:39:10,579
around Betty spots of light in the sky

846
00:39:14,870 --> 00:39:13,140
tells Barney she's watching a UFO and he

847
00:39:17,779 --> 00:39:14,880
says out Betty it's not it was probably

848
00:39:21,260 --> 00:39:17,789
a Piper Cub looking over there over the

849
00:39:24,710 --> 00:39:21,270
mountains and not many people around I'm

850
00:39:27,410 --> 00:39:24,720
sure on those roads and they see it go

851
00:39:29,210 --> 00:39:27,420
in front of the moon I get a kick out of

852
00:39:31,190 --> 00:39:29,220
somebody saying oh it's just Jupiter

853
00:39:34,819 --> 00:39:31,200
yeah Jupiter always goes in front of the

854
00:39:37,190 --> 00:39:34,829
moon you know they see it go near the

855
00:39:39,529 --> 00:39:37,200
old man of the mountain which dropped

856
00:39:41,900 --> 00:39:39,539
into the lake later but as a geological

857
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:41,910
formation that looked like the abandoned

858
00:39:46,150 --> 00:39:43,650
that's about 48 feet high and I said it

859
00:39:48,289 --> 00:39:46,160
was one and a half times that height

860
00:39:51,230 --> 00:39:48,299
that doesn't sound like Jupiter either

861
00:39:52,849 --> 00:39:51,240
obviously it comes closer now they're

862
00:39:54,769 --> 00:39:52,859
beginning to get a little concerned my

863
00:39:59,029 --> 00:39:54,779
stops the car in the middle of the road

864
00:40:01,370 --> 00:39:59,039
nobody around and casados binoculars and

865
00:40:03,529 --> 00:40:01,380
sees this round front of pancake shaped

866
00:40:06,170 --> 00:40:03,539
object if you will with the robe windows

867
00:40:07,700 --> 00:40:06,180
around the middle and with the

868
00:40:10,069 --> 00:40:07,710
binoculars you can see inside the

869
00:40:12,710 --> 00:40:10,079
windows and there's a bunch of beings

870
00:40:15,079 --> 00:40:12,720
there which they women and stuff like

871
00:40:18,019 --> 00:40:15,089
that right and and so but at the time

872
00:40:20,059 --> 00:40:18,029
that that's what happened but they

873
00:40:22,220 --> 00:40:20,069
didn't all of this was recalled later

874
00:40:25,250 --> 00:40:22,230
right so they're 12 nothing hard about

875
00:40:27,529 --> 00:40:25,260
but they remembered seeing the the but

876
00:40:30,519 --> 00:40:27,539
the bodies the beings inside behind the

877
00:40:36,500 --> 00:40:30,529
windows but then there were strange

878
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:36,510
noises on the car and that they was

879
00:40:39,980 --> 00:40:38,010
strange they drove away they did two

880
00:40:42,230 --> 00:40:39,990
things that they would ye would never

881
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:42,240
done gone from a primary road to a

882
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:43,530
secondary road than to a

883
00:40:48,170 --> 00:40:45,890
sherry road and then there's a fade-out

884
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:48,180
noises again in the car and I get home

885
00:40:52,250 --> 00:40:50,010
and I got home two hours later than they

886
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:52,260
should have gotten home which was quite

887
00:40:56,240 --> 00:40:54,210
a mystery and Barney's shoes were

888
00:40:59,150 --> 00:40:56,250
scuffed and he was a meticulous dresser

889
00:41:04,540 --> 00:40:59,160
that was crazy and Betty's dress was

890
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:04,550
torn renault dress strange anyway uh

891
00:41:12,380 --> 00:41:09,810
Betty called her sister who's the mother

892
00:41:15,140 --> 00:41:12,390
of the co-author of the book Kathleen

893
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:15,150
Martin's mother and Kathleen was in the

894
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:16,890
room when this call came through and

895
00:41:20,090 --> 00:41:18,570
talking about seeing the UFO nothing

896
00:41:22,940 --> 00:41:20,100
about being abducted could she know

897
00:41:25,550 --> 00:41:22,950
about me but they had some health

898
00:41:27,860 --> 00:41:25,560
problems why they develop ulcers and the

899
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:27,870
doctors after awhile says funny there's

900
00:41:30,380 --> 00:41:29,490
nothing more I can do for you I think

901
00:41:32,750 --> 00:41:30,390
you really ought to see this

902
00:41:36,530 --> 00:41:32,760
psychiatrist people thought resolve

903
00:41:38,420 --> 00:41:36,540
stress with ulcers you know which we now

904
00:41:41,690 --> 00:41:38,430
know isn't completely true at all but

905
00:41:44,240 --> 00:41:41,700
anyway doctor they the most fortunate

906
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:44,250
thing about the store is the doctor that

907
00:41:47,660 --> 00:41:45,690
they were recommended to was dr.

908
00:41:51,380 --> 00:41:47,670
Benjamin Simon a psychiatrist from

909
00:41:53,570 --> 00:41:51,390
Harvard background and the world expert

910
00:41:56,990 --> 00:41:53,580
on what was then called shell-shocked

911
00:41:58,610 --> 00:41:57,000
War veterans now we'd say PTSD when I

912
00:42:00,800 --> 00:41:58,620
say world-class expert here in a

913
00:42:02,810 --> 00:42:00,810
hospital that had three thousand beds

914
00:42:06,050 --> 00:42:02,820
for such guys coming out of World War

915
00:42:09,650 --> 00:42:06,060
two the army made a movie let there be

916
00:42:12,590 --> 00:42:09,660
light starring dr. Simon explaining how

917
00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:12,600
he brought people back to be among the

918
00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:14,130
living so to speak you know your buddy's

919
00:42:20,180 --> 00:42:16,650
head gets blown off next to you and he

920
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:20,190
handle that you know not easy so dr.

921
00:42:24,530 --> 00:42:21,450
Simon didn't know a darn thing about

922
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:24,540
flying saucers but he knew a great deal

923
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:27,450
about helping people get over missing

924
00:42:31,970 --> 00:42:29,850
time traumatic experiences whatever you

925
00:42:33,650 --> 00:42:31,980
want to call it and he said the

926
00:42:37,820 --> 00:42:33,660
emotional intensity did ten sessions

927
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:37,830
each Betty and Barney separately now so

928
00:42:41,030 --> 00:42:39,810
they couldn't tell an induced amnesia at

929
00:42:42,620 --> 00:42:41,040
the end of each sessions they couldn't

930
00:42:45,710 --> 00:42:42,630
tell the other one what went on right

931
00:42:47,420 --> 00:42:45,720
and he had to stop one session each

932
00:42:51,290 --> 00:42:47,430
because he didn't think they could

933
00:42:55,190 --> 00:42:51,300
handle it the terror and Kathleen is

934
00:42:56,819 --> 00:42:55,200
made available at tapes of copies of

935
00:42:59,160 --> 00:42:56,829
those tapes

936
00:43:02,670 --> 00:42:59,170
dr. Simon in writing said that the

937
00:43:05,489 --> 00:43:02,680
emotional intensity with every bit as

938
00:43:07,890 --> 00:43:05,499
great as it was for the shell shock War

939
00:43:10,769 --> 00:43:07,900
veterans they worked coming from him

940
00:43:12,870 --> 00:43:10,779
exactly that means a great deal you know

941
00:43:16,469 --> 00:43:12,880
it's not a parlor hypnotist kind of

942
00:43:20,519 --> 00:43:16,479
thing and so a recognized world-class

943
00:43:22,940 --> 00:43:20,529
expert and under hypnosis comes the

944
00:43:25,380 --> 00:43:22,950
story that they were abducted on board

945
00:43:27,329 --> 00:43:25,390
treated as specimens in separate rooms

946
00:43:30,150 --> 00:43:27,339
stick a needle here scrape some skin

947
00:43:31,979 --> 00:43:30,160
there can lock of skin here and all the

948
00:43:34,949 --> 00:43:31,989
details are in the book one of the

949
00:43:37,769 --> 00:43:34,959
strangest things was that Betty under

950
00:43:41,130 --> 00:43:37,779
hypnosis is she's trying to get the

951
00:43:43,529 --> 00:43:41,140
leader makes it has a great line I know

952
00:43:46,650 --> 00:43:43,539
you're not from around here where are

953
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:46,660
you from you know understatement of the

954
00:43:51,029 --> 00:43:49,450
years right and he shows her what I can

955
00:43:54,089 --> 00:43:51,039
only describe as a three-dimensional

956
00:43:57,410 --> 00:43:54,099
model maybe a hologram three feet by

957
00:44:01,019 --> 00:43:57,420
three feet by two feet a bunch of stars

958
00:44:02,969 --> 00:44:01,029
supposedly based stars and trade routes

959
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:02,979
and occasional expeditions and Betty's

960
00:44:07,529 --> 00:44:05,650
looking at this thing and I can imagine

961
00:44:11,059 --> 00:44:07,539
what was going in dr. Simon said what

962
00:44:14,219 --> 00:44:11,069
else well because because at that time

963
00:44:16,559 --> 00:44:14,229
nobody had heard of an abduction you

964
00:44:18,449 --> 00:44:16,569
know so this doctor is never modeled for

965
00:44:20,279 --> 00:44:18,459
that there was no model for any of this

966
00:44:21,599 --> 00:44:20,289
so he probably doesn't know how to deal

967
00:44:23,759 --> 00:44:21,609
with it but he's hearing this for the

968
00:44:26,729 --> 00:44:23,769
first time should be writing it down for

969
00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:26,739
his book that he but anyway he taped all

970
00:44:32,999 --> 00:44:29,890
the session again to his credit after

971
00:44:35,759 --> 00:44:33,009
Betty describes this star map she sees

972
00:44:37,589 --> 00:44:35,769
and when she has some were you on a map

973
00:44:39,630 --> 00:44:37,599
the wise guy says you know where you are

974
00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:39,640
no I don't know anything about astronomy

975
00:44:42,449 --> 00:44:41,410
how can I tell you around problem if you

976
00:44:45,930 --> 00:44:42,459
don't know where you're at end of

977
00:44:48,089 --> 00:44:45,940
discussion well dr. Simon asks but if

978
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:48,099
she can remember what this map looked

979
00:44:53,249 --> 00:44:50,410
like she said yes she's got good had

980
00:44:55,559 --> 00:44:53,259
good 3d memory and he gave her a

981
00:44:57,420 --> 00:44:55,569
posthypnotic suggestion if and only if

982
00:45:00,539 --> 00:44:57,430
you can remember it accurately please

983
00:45:03,870 --> 00:45:00,549
draw it later on she went home she drew

984
00:45:06,390 --> 00:45:03,880
it brought it in next time it's in the

985
00:45:07,799 --> 00:45:06,400
book okay stop stop stop right there I

986
00:45:10,380 --> 00:45:07,809
need everybody to understand exactly

987
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:10,390
well what year did she draw the star map

988
00:45:17,069 --> 00:45:15,010
what year I would have been early 64

989
00:45:19,589 --> 00:45:17,079
early 64 and you know where I'm going

990
00:45:21,769 --> 00:45:19,599
with this with 1969 so we'll visit that

991
00:45:25,730 --> 00:45:21,779
in a second but she draws this star map

992
00:45:29,370 --> 00:45:25,740
from a 3d visual that she got from her

993
00:45:32,250 --> 00:45:29,380
you know her captive or whatever abduct

994
00:45:34,859 --> 00:45:32,260
her she draws the star map and she

995
00:45:36,779 --> 00:45:34,869
remembers that she draws it now this to

996
00:45:38,309 --> 00:45:36,789
me this star map and we're going to get

997
00:45:40,819 --> 00:45:38,319
we're gonna spend some time on this but

998
00:45:43,380 --> 00:45:40,829
this is this was a real game-changer and

999
00:45:46,529 --> 00:45:43,390
not only for me when I found out when

1000
00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:46,539
the book came out no no no exactly but

1001
00:45:53,460 --> 00:45:49,170
because the book the book came out in 66

1002
00:45:55,950 --> 00:45:53,470
so um she draws this star map and then

1003
00:45:58,799 --> 00:45:55,960
what you want to jump ahead and talk

1004
00:46:03,089 --> 00:45:58,809
about Marjorie fish now well yeah I a

1005
00:46:05,940 --> 00:46:03,099
woman a schoolteacher in Ohio read the

1006
00:46:08,339 --> 00:46:05,950
book had studied a member of mensa very

1007
00:46:10,890 --> 00:46:08,349
bright gal gal me Marjorie fish she'd

1008
00:46:14,099 --> 00:46:10,900
studied astronomy and biology and so

1009
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:14,109
forth and she wondered if there's

1010
00:46:18,809 --> 00:46:15,490
anything she could do and she actually

1011
00:46:21,329 --> 00:46:18,819
visited city in New Hampshire from Ohio

1012
00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:21,339
to get more information about it then

1013
00:46:25,650 --> 00:46:22,690
she did something nobody else had ever

1014
00:46:28,140 --> 00:46:25,660
done she wound up building more than

1015
00:46:31,079 --> 00:46:28,150
twenty three dimensional models of our

1016
00:46:34,710 --> 00:46:31,089
local neighborhood little beads on fish

1017
00:46:35,839 --> 00:46:34,720
line actually on a frame and the hard

1018
00:46:38,039 --> 00:46:35,849
part is to get them in the right

1019
00:46:40,620 --> 00:46:38,049
three-dimensional location I've seen

1020
00:46:44,759 --> 00:46:40,630
photographs of it of her model it's

1021
00:46:46,289 --> 00:46:44,769
insane well she thought she hopefully

1022
00:46:47,370 --> 00:46:46,299
could find a three dimensional pattern

1023
00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:47,380
that matched the two dimensional

1024
00:46:52,529 --> 00:46:49,690
drawings he said to have the distances

1025
00:46:54,150 --> 00:46:52,539
right and we had lousy values for the

1026
00:46:56,519 --> 00:46:54,160
distances astronomers weren't going

1027
00:46:57,900 --> 00:46:56,529
anywhere you needed two angles to see

1028
00:46:59,789 --> 00:46:57,910
his particular start didn't matter

1029
00:47:01,499 --> 00:46:59,799
whether it was 20 light years or 40

1030
00:47:03,749 --> 00:47:01,509
light years but it does if you're trying

1031
00:47:07,230 --> 00:47:03,759
to figure out on the 3d basis you see

1032
00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:07,240
and Marjorie I got a call from a pro the

1033
00:47:11,910 --> 00:47:09,210
aerial phenomena research organization

1034
00:47:14,130 --> 00:47:11,920
because Marjorie had asked them if they

1035
00:47:17,910 --> 00:47:14,140
knew anybody a scientist who could help

1036
00:47:19,529 --> 00:47:17,920
her and they thought of me and because i

1037
00:47:21,900 --> 00:47:19,539
was traveling a lot i went to visit

1038
00:47:23,970 --> 00:47:21,910
Marjorie i had conversations with her i

1039
00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:23,980
was with her in Chicago

1040
00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:25,570
she showed one of the models to dr.

1041
00:47:30,450 --> 00:47:27,970
Hynek i was at am you find conference

1042
00:47:33,450 --> 00:47:30,460
where she gave a paper and i published

1043
00:47:36,270 --> 00:47:33,460
the first article about her work and

1044
00:47:37,950 --> 00:47:36,280
what's remarkable she's one of most

1045
00:47:42,870 --> 00:47:37,960
objective people I ever met you just

1046
00:47:45,180 --> 00:47:42,880
died last April incidentally and in my

1047
00:47:47,130 --> 00:47:45,190
movie UFOs real there's a statement from

1048
00:47:49,410 --> 00:47:47,140
the head of the Astronomy Department and

1049
00:47:51,630 --> 00:47:49,420
Ohio State University saying how

1050
00:47:55,050 --> 00:47:51,640
accurate her work was as students looked

1051
00:47:57,510 --> 00:47:55,060
at used her models as teaching tools and

1052
00:48:02,400 --> 00:47:57,520
the bottom line is she was able to

1053
00:48:05,099 --> 00:48:02,410
identify the base stars all the stars in

1054
00:48:07,530 --> 00:48:05,109
the model but the important thing is so

1055
00:48:11,130 --> 00:48:07,540
okay these big stars that look as big as

1056
00:48:13,950 --> 00:48:11,140
a nickel she Betty said Zeta 1 and Zeta

1057
00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:13,960
2 Reticuli that's the constellation of

1058
00:48:19,290 --> 00:48:16,570
reticulum and normally people say well

1059
00:48:22,290 --> 00:48:19,300
who cares what's special about them well

1060
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:22,300
as it turns out we didn't know it before

1061
00:48:28,470 --> 00:48:25,330
him they're the closest to each other

1062
00:48:32,430 --> 00:48:28,480
pair of sun-like stars in our entire

1063
00:48:35,099 --> 00:48:32,440
local neighborhood here you're only 39

1064
00:48:36,570 --> 00:48:35,109
now we know they're 39.3 light-years

1065
00:48:39,060 --> 00:48:36,580
away now we have much better data

1066
00:48:42,030 --> 00:48:39,070
because we used the hipparcos satellite

1067
00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:42,040
to measure millions of positions but

1068
00:48:45,599 --> 00:48:43,690
that data wasn't available to many years

1069
00:48:47,700 --> 00:48:45,609
later well and it certainly wasn't

1070
00:48:49,530 --> 00:48:47,710
available to Betty when she drove

1071
00:48:52,500 --> 00:48:49,540
through the original star map and

1072
00:48:54,870 --> 00:48:52,510
exactly and that for everybody you need

1073
00:48:58,790 --> 00:48:54,880
to really wrap your head around that for

1074
00:49:03,780 --> 00:48:58,800
a second she drew the star map in

1075
00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:03,790
1964-65 correct in 64 this information

1076
00:49:11,010 --> 00:49:07,330
wasn't firmly confirmed for anybody

1077
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:11,020
until nineteen sixty-nine Marjorie fish

1078
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:13,890
started putting her star map together in

1079
00:49:20,700 --> 00:49:17,290
1968 and for all of this to have

1080
00:49:22,170 --> 00:49:20,710
happened it just I I can't like I said I

1081
00:49:24,420 --> 00:49:22,180
just can't wrap my head around it just

1082
00:49:25,980 --> 00:49:24,430
like you've got to be kidding me it's

1083
00:49:27,570 --> 00:49:25,990
it's what it's the one thing about the

1084
00:49:30,570 --> 00:49:27,580
Betty and Barney Hill story that I think

1085
00:49:32,820 --> 00:49:30,580
just adds adds to the credibility of

1086
00:49:35,250 --> 00:49:32,830
well let me finish the specialness about

1087
00:49:36,849 --> 00:49:35,260
these two stars you go Stan you go you

1088
00:49:39,249 --> 00:49:36,859
go stand

1089
00:49:41,170 --> 00:49:39,259
the closest to each other pair of

1090
00:49:43,479 --> 00:49:41,180
sun-like stars in our entire local

1091
00:49:47,589 --> 00:49:43,489
neighborhood the Sun from the next star

1092
00:49:49,839 --> 00:49:47,599
is 4.3 light years these two stars from

1093
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:49,849
each other only 39.3 light-years from

1094
00:49:53,529 --> 00:49:51,410
here which is just down the street the

1095
00:49:55,079 --> 00:49:53,539
galaxy's 100,000 light years across so

1096
00:49:58,450 --> 00:49:55,089
you know this is right down the street

1097
00:50:01,479 --> 00:49:58,460
these two stars are only an eighth of

1098
00:50:04,269 --> 00:50:01,489
the light year apart they're 30 times

1099
00:50:05,499 --> 00:50:04,279
closer to each other then the Sun is to

1100
00:50:07,239 --> 00:50:05,509
the next star over we're out in the

1101
00:50:10,870 --> 00:50:07,249
boonies these guys got next-door

1102
00:50:14,170 --> 00:50:10,880
neighbors and there are cool billion

1103
00:50:16,180 --> 00:50:14,180
years older than the Sun and from a

1104
00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:16,190
planet around one looking at the other

1105
00:50:21,729 --> 00:50:18,890
stars visible all day long mind you

1106
00:50:25,569 --> 00:50:21,739
right and you could easily determine if

1107
00:50:27,670 --> 00:50:25,579
they put their Kepler up you know a

1108
00:50:30,579 --> 00:50:27,680
million years ago they know where what

1109
00:50:33,339 --> 00:50:30,589
else is around that's one of the strange

1110
00:50:35,589 --> 00:50:33,349
things that the debunkers don't think

1111
00:50:38,109 --> 00:50:35,599
that anybody out there is ahead of us

1112
00:50:39,759 --> 00:50:38,119
from and what are they you know

1113
00:50:41,229 --> 00:50:39,769
seriously I don't think anybody has ever

1114
00:50:45,279 --> 00:50:41,239
done this but what what are the

1115
00:50:47,979 --> 00:50:45,289
mathematical odds of of Marjorie

1116
00:50:51,009 --> 00:50:47,989
figuring this out from the original star

1117
00:50:54,579 --> 00:50:51,019
map to have it line up using she used

1118
00:50:57,579 --> 00:50:54,589
our son right yeah exactly so for it to

1119
00:51:00,489 --> 00:50:57,589
like what what are the odds very very

1120
00:51:02,170 --> 00:51:00,499
small is the best I can say as I say in

1121
00:51:04,630 --> 00:51:02,180
my movie you can hear the comments from

1122
00:51:07,809 --> 00:51:04,640
the head of the Astronomy Department at

1123
00:51:10,420 --> 00:51:07,819
Ohio State University I believe it or

1124
00:51:13,239 --> 00:51:10,430
not she couldn't take out the star

1125
00:51:18,640 --> 00:51:13,249
catalogues she had to get the his

1126
00:51:21,249 --> 00:51:18,650
permission to copy numbers out of crazy

1127
00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:21,259
and as I was very pleased i published

1128
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:24,650
the first article in saga magazine

1129
00:51:31,319 --> 00:51:27,410
everybody's favorite old oh yeah there

1130
00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:31,329
you go but what's interesting is that in

1131
00:51:36,729 --> 00:51:34,970
Kathleen Mardan her niece and my book

1132
00:51:39,309 --> 00:51:36,739
captured and Kathy did eighty-five

1133
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:39,319
percent of the work uh have a whole

1134
00:51:43,930 --> 00:51:41,210
chapter on it and the objections of the

1135
00:51:45,549 --> 00:51:43,940
model and all that sort of stuff none of

1136
00:51:48,819 --> 00:51:45,559
that of course was in the interrupted

1137
00:51:50,050 --> 00:51:48,829
journey there was a map and what do you

1138
00:51:54,530 --> 00:51:50,060
make of this we don't know

1139
00:51:57,590 --> 00:51:54,540
well I was able to include all the stuff

1140
00:52:00,320 --> 00:51:57,600
that's been done and I got astronomy

1141
00:52:02,270 --> 00:52:00,330
magazine because of my saga magazine

1142
00:52:04,700 --> 00:52:02,280
article i got the editor of astronomy

1143
00:52:05,930 --> 00:52:04,710
publish an article and they're got more

1144
00:52:08,060 --> 00:52:05,940
response than anything they'd ever

1145
00:52:09,950 --> 00:52:08,070
published they published letters for

1146
00:52:12,620 --> 00:52:09,960
like 11 straight issues and they put out

1147
00:52:16,130 --> 00:52:12,630
a 32-page full color booklet with zaida

1148
00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:16,140
Reticuli incident they sold 10,000

1149
00:52:21,350 --> 00:52:18,210
copies in no time flight that's unheard

1150
00:52:23,060 --> 00:52:21,360
of for this kind of exactly and then

1151
00:52:24,290 --> 00:52:23,070
Carl Sagan's lawyer at threatens to sue

1152
00:52:25,550 --> 00:52:24,300
them because his name was on the

1153
00:52:29,420 --> 00:52:25,560
practice he's one of the people who

1154
00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:29,430
responded and it turns out the publisher

1155
00:52:33,980 --> 00:52:31,290
had a brain tumor and died less than six

1156
00:52:36,070 --> 00:52:33,990
months later but he caved in to them and

1157
00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:36,080
they made me an offer I couldn't refuse

1158
00:52:41,660 --> 00:52:39,690
because I was instigated the article and

1159
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:41,670
I want it with 18 thousand copies of

1160
00:52:47,510 --> 00:52:43,890
this 32-page full color booklet in my

1161
00:52:49,490 --> 00:52:47,520
garage in California but I got rid of

1162
00:52:51,980 --> 00:52:49,500
them all I moved many of them here to

1163
00:52:53,570 --> 00:52:51,990
Fredericton New Brunswick and if I had

1164
00:52:55,430 --> 00:52:53,580
another fifteen thousand or eighteen

1165
00:52:58,040 --> 00:52:55,440
thousand i could sell them to i think i

1166
00:53:01,550 --> 00:52:58,050
would prove the interest you know that

1167
00:53:06,950 --> 00:53:01,560
that's the point and very exciting work

1168
00:53:09,140 --> 00:53:06,960
and because of Kepler now suddenly our

1169
00:53:11,270 --> 00:53:09,150
old position of we're at the top of the

1170
00:53:15,190 --> 00:53:11,280
heap cuz we up the only products in the

1171
00:53:18,050 --> 00:53:15,200
universe right no wrong it's exactly

1172
00:53:22,130 --> 00:53:18,060
right now the best estimates based on

1173
00:53:25,160 --> 00:53:22,140
the cover data are that is about a

1174
00:53:27,170 --> 00:53:25,170
planet per start some have five star and

1175
00:53:31,310 --> 00:53:27,180
five planets and some at none but

1176
00:53:33,980 --> 00:53:31,320
overall so in our galaxy with a couple

1177
00:53:38,780 --> 00:53:33,990
hundred billion stars we got a few

1178
00:53:41,210 --> 00:53:38,790
billion at least planets instead of ours

1179
00:53:45,620 --> 00:53:41,220
you know the city people used to say

1180
00:53:48,110 --> 00:53:45,630
that there might be as many as 8,000

1181
00:53:51,380 --> 00:53:48,120
places I could send a signal a better

1182
00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:51,390
number today would be eight billion why

1183
00:53:56,150 --> 00:53:53,970
and I have trouble with SETI as you know

1184
00:53:57,860 --> 00:53:56,160
like say it stands for silly effort to

1185
00:54:00,530 --> 00:53:57,870
investigate rather than search for

1186
00:54:03,240 --> 00:54:00,540
extraterrestrial intelligence but for

1187
00:54:05,730 --> 00:54:03,250
good reason uh

1188
00:54:07,590 --> 00:54:05,740
astronomers who attack UFOs don't do

1189
00:54:10,050 --> 00:54:07,600
their homework they don't read the site

1190
00:54:12,420 --> 00:54:10,060
five large scale scientific studies that

1191
00:54:16,080 --> 00:54:12,430
I talked about they don't know anything

1192
00:54:18,680 --> 00:54:16,090
about national security dr. Tyson of the

1193
00:54:21,090 --> 00:54:18,690
Hayden Planetarium has stated publicly

1194
00:54:23,040 --> 00:54:21,100
the proof that the government can't keep

1195
00:54:26,130 --> 00:54:23,050
secrets is how much we know about

1196
00:54:28,080 --> 00:54:26,140
President Clinton's genitalia funny

1197
00:54:33,870 --> 00:54:28,090
remarks which has nothing to do with the

1198
00:54:37,530 --> 00:54:33,880
NSA NSA CIA CIA etc etc they also know

1199
00:54:40,530 --> 00:54:37,540
nothing about a technology interstellar

1200
00:54:42,930 --> 00:54:40,540
travel dr. Tyson himself once dated a

1201
00:54:45,420 --> 00:54:42,940
program that I was on to where they're

1202
00:54:50,160 --> 00:54:45,430
at the same time Peter Jennings special

1203
00:54:51,900 --> 00:54:50,170
in 2005 that our fastest craft would get

1204
00:54:53,520 --> 00:54:51,910
to the nearest star if it was heading in

1205
00:54:54,870 --> 00:54:53,530
the right direction in seventy thousand

1206
00:54:57,210 --> 00:54:54,880
years and that's not fast enough

1207
00:54:58,860 --> 00:54:57,220
scientists of course he didn't bother to

1208
00:55:02,640 --> 00:54:58,870
mention it doesn't have a propulsion

1209
00:55:04,470 --> 00:55:02,650
system on right throw a bottle in the

1210
00:55:07,380 --> 00:55:04,480
noise I can I tell you how long it takes

1211
00:55:10,350 --> 00:55:07,390
across the ocean I don't know exactly

1212
00:55:12,930 --> 00:55:10,360
exactly well we're update we're up

1213
00:55:14,850 --> 00:55:12,940
against we're at the top of the hour and

1214
00:55:16,770 --> 00:55:14,860
I don't want to cut you off but I will

1215
00:55:19,020 --> 00:55:16,780
say this will you come back on the show

1216
00:55:22,440 --> 00:55:19,030
when we have some more time yes and

1217
00:55:25,080 --> 00:55:22,450
don't forget my my website no we r dot

1218
00:55:27,900 --> 00:55:25,090
dot fantin Friedman calm all of that

1219
00:55:29,520 --> 00:55:27,910
will be up on our website everybody can

1220
00:55:31,800 --> 00:55:29,530
go you can go over and check that out

1221
00:55:34,470 --> 00:55:31,810
but I wanted to jump in and just say

1222
00:55:38,430 --> 00:55:34,480
really quick coming up next we're going

1223
00:55:41,130 --> 00:55:38,440
to have norio Hayek a lion and he now I

1224
00:55:44,040 --> 00:55:41,140
don't wanna I don't want to say anything

1225
00:55:46,020 --> 00:55:44,050
at all here that's another conversation

1226
00:55:48,330 --> 00:55:46,030
for norio and I to have it in a few

1227
00:55:51,240 --> 00:55:48,340
minutes but you did a lot of

1228
00:55:55,560 --> 00:55:51,250
investigating into bob lazar yet rigor

1229
00:55:57,270 --> 00:55:55,570
and with everything we don't have enough

1230
00:55:58,650 --> 00:55:57,280
time to go into all of it and again I

1231
00:56:01,620 --> 00:55:58,660
would love to have you back on to talk

1232
00:56:03,990 --> 00:56:01,630
about it but it when all the cards were

1233
00:56:06,630 --> 00:56:04,000
dealt how did you feel about Bob in the

1234
00:56:08,640 --> 00:56:06,640
end a very bright guy who's not telling

1235
00:56:10,620 --> 00:56:08,650
the truth about himself or about his

1236
00:56:13,320 --> 00:56:10,630
experiences he claims he has degrees

1237
00:56:15,420 --> 00:56:13,330
from MIT and Caltech neither one ever

1238
00:56:16,920 --> 00:56:15,430
heard of them well he did go to peers

1239
00:56:21,839 --> 00:56:16,930
down the street for my house

1240
00:56:25,290 --> 00:56:21,849
two perfectly fine school I've and his

1241
00:56:27,630 --> 00:56:25,300
gross michalka yes it'll actually no no

1242
00:56:30,240 --> 00:56:27,640
but you will he does tell a good story

1243
00:56:32,640 --> 00:56:30,250
you know yeah it does tell a good story

1244
00:56:35,339 --> 00:56:32,650
and I'm there's an article on my website

1245
00:56:38,400 --> 00:56:35,349
I guess and I've done something about

1246
00:56:41,010 --> 00:56:38,410
fraud and ufology and stuff I say

1247
00:56:44,640 --> 00:56:41,020
they're very bright guy but he is not a

1248
00:56:46,680 --> 00:56:44,650
scientist we were supposed to meet a

1249
00:56:50,069 --> 00:56:46,690
couple of times and somehow he backed

1250
00:56:54,780 --> 00:56:50,079
out when I was in Las Vegas through

1251
00:56:56,579 --> 00:56:54,790
George Knapp outstanding journalists

1252
00:56:59,549 --> 00:56:56,589
about me why pose one knows absolutely

1253
00:57:02,190 --> 00:56:59,559
one of the best and so you know it's not

1254
00:57:04,440 --> 00:57:02,200
that I wasn't trying and I got asked

1255
00:57:07,470 --> 00:57:04,450
what it would take to convince me and by

1256
00:57:10,440 --> 00:57:07,480
a buddy of his and I said oh a resume a

1257
00:57:13,349 --> 00:57:10,450
list of his papers you know copies of

1258
00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:13,359
his diplomas maybe stuff like that and i

1259
00:57:18,870 --> 00:57:15,970
sent him a whole batch of stuff i never

1260
00:57:21,059 --> 00:57:18,880
got anything back so I'm sorry I tried

1261
00:57:23,190 --> 00:57:21,069
I've done more I think than anybody else

1262
00:57:27,180 --> 00:57:23,200
well I would love to have you back on

1263
00:57:30,120 --> 00:57:27,190
again I enjoyed it and thank you mr.

1264
00:57:31,650 --> 00:57:30,130
Friedman as seriously writer and we'll

1265
00:57:33,720 --> 00:57:31,660
get you on again I'll have all of the

1266
00:57:36,180 --> 00:57:33,730
links up for everybody on the website

1267
00:57:38,789 --> 00:57:36,190
going over to stand your books and they

1268
00:57:40,470 --> 00:57:38,799
can check out the bob lazar fraud ok

1269
00:57:47,069 --> 00:57:40,480
Thank You mr. Friedman will talk to you

1270
00:57:48,900 --> 00:57:47,079
soon all right this is fade to black i

1271
00:57:52,950 --> 00:57:48,910
am your host jimmy church we are on the

1272
00:57:55,680 --> 00:57:52,960
Dark Matter radio network coming up next

1273
00:57:59,069 --> 00:57:55,690
norio hayakawa we're going to take a

1274
00:58:01,349 --> 00:57:59,079
quick break kjc are Jimmy church radio